Community Chats
Welcome to "Community Chats," bringing you stories and insights from the heart of Community Living Toronto. From frontline champions, advocates, and volunteers to the people we support, their families and friends, together we explore the different experiences, celebrate success stories, share memorable moments, discuss pressing challenges and new developments in the sector.
New Episodes will be available on 15th and 30th of each month on Buzzsprout, Spotify, Audible, YouTube, and Apple Podcasts.
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Community Chats
Independence Built on Trust
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In this episode of Community Chats, Linda and Ken join Brad Saunders, CEO of Community Living Toronto, for a conversation about their family's journey with their son, Ian.
From Ian's early years to moving into supported independent living more than 25 years ago, Linda and Ken share the moments that shaped his path to independence. They talk about preparing for life's next steps, learning to let go as parents, and how trusted relationships have helped Ian and his roommate, Philip, build a life filled with confidence, connection, and belonging. They reflect on overcoming fears, embracing new opportunities, and the lasting impact of having the right supports through every stage of the journey.
Their story is a reminder that independence doesn't happen all at once. It grows through encouragement, confidence, community, and believing in what people can achieve.
Hello and welcome to Community Chats. What makes independent living truly work? In this episode of Community Chats, I have a conversation with Linda and Ken, and we explore the move of their son, Ian, towards independent living. This conversation highlights the power of friendships, family, and long-term trusted support through the 25-year friendship of Ian and Philip. Their lives together highlights some of the most important ingredients of independence: choice, complementary strength, strong family connections, accessible communities, and support that evolves over time. We also explore the lasting impact of direct support professionals who build relationships rooted in trust and consistency and genuine connection. It's a conversation about belonging, interdependence, and what becomes possible when people have the right support to build a life of their own choosing. So grab a coffee, settle in, and let's chat. Because belonging begins with listening. Linda and Ken, thank you for joining us today. Really looking forward to uh this conversation and appreciate you taking time on a what is today a very sunny July morning. Thanks, uh, thanks for joining.
SPEAKER_00No, we're always delighted to talk about Ian and community living. So thank you.
SPEAKER_02And you're going to get to talk about yourselves a little bit too. So uh hopefully that's okay as well.
SPEAKER_03No problem.
SPEAKER_02All right. Okay. Um so um tell us a little bit about yourselves. Your uh uh how did you uh how did you both how did you both meet? How did you uh tell us a little bit about your lives?
SPEAKER_03Well, believe it or not, we were in grade nine together, and it took me until grade 12 to ask Linda to a dance. And then Linda went off to university at University of Waterloo, where she got a mathematics degree. I went to Western and then we went, uh I did some postgraduate work out in Alberta. We went there. We then went and taught high school for two years in Australia, and there we had our first son.
SPEAKER_02Returned returned to Ontario and and uh lived in various places, including Thunder Bay and so you you you were both born in born and raised in and around Toronto?
SPEAKER_03Was that in Owen Sound?
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02Owen Sound, okay. So it's uh so you went to high school in Owen Sound or in Toronto?
SPEAKER_03It's Owen Sound. Owen Sound.
SPEAKER_02Okay. So was is there only one I I've been to Owen Sound, but is there only one high school there or uh there was at that time, but there are there are two now. Okay. So and it took you four years, um Ken, to get up the nerve to ask Linda to advance. That's that's a lot of runway.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's right. Right. Yeah, that's gonna be big picky.
SPEAKER_02As were you, you so by by the end of the four years, by the time you got there, you you were pretty confident that this was this was the person you wanted to spend more time with.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And it has been so 58 years, it is has been lovely to share that background. We don't need to explain what Own Sun was like, we don't need to explain what the neighbors were like. Um, you know, I don't think our families knew each other, but our families knew people in common. Right. You know, so um, yes, it's a it's a good way to have a relationship.
SPEAKER_02Right, excellent. Now, and 58 years, congratulations, you're coming up on 60. I hope you do something big for that. That's a big milestone.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, right. Thank you.
SPEAKER_02Um, so now you you had you mentioned you had um a child when you were living abroad. Uh tell us about your family.
SPEAKER_03Well, uh our oldest boy Vance is uh is now 54, 54. Um, and uh he's uh he's uh single and but uh does very well in the finance area. And uh and then Ian is is uh now 52. I'm not good with ages. And um and uh so that's it.
SPEAKER_00Yes, they have a lot of aunts and uncles. They're older, so um not many now, but they did. They grew up with a lot of aunts and uncles.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_03I'd I'd like to say one thing uh uh when when I was in Olin Sound growing up, my mother and father were foster parents uh for many, many, many years. And they um uh one of their foster children was adopted and is my one of my sisters, and another uh uh learning disabled fellow, Billy, uh he lived, he lived with us, and uh unfortunately he uh he died in a high school camping camping trip. But Billy was very much part of the family, and uh so I I grew up in kind of in that environment with all kinds of kids. Uh in the it was like a growing up in a group home, I think. And uh Billy Billy had special needs, but he had a real he had a lot of characteristics uh that Ian has.
SPEAKER_00He was determined, he spirit, and spirit, and just so many things.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and I was uh I was a foster parent myself for a number of years, and I uh still look back on those years as wondering how I made it through, but also the the connections that you keep with people years years later, and just the understanding you under you you gain of how different people experience life uh and growing up uh growing up differently. So you talked about your son Ian, and Ian was born with a disability. Uh talk us through that. How what what uh what happened there?
SPEAKER_00So Ian was born in Thunder Bay and he convulsed shortly after he was born and was in a coma for six days. So that's one of the other advantages Ken and I think we had with raising Ian. First of all, we knew Billy and how bright he could be. And secondly, we knew from day one, we knew from day one that we would have to make a special effort for stimulation, for being patient, just for all that takes to being the parent of a handicapped child. So I think that was a disadvantage, uh, an advantage.
SPEAKER_03Right. Some parents don't notice that that their child isn't reaching the milestones they should they should be at, say for a year, year and a half, two years. And then there's a huge adjustment, I know at that point.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. The other thing, uh, Thunder Bay had a crippled children's center, served all of northern Ontario. But there was a woman there called Mrs. Nemie, and Ian went there for speech therapy. So now we went there for three years. I think maybe the last six months we did speech, but the first two years it was all about concentration. And I would sit in a closet with Louver doors to see what she did, and then I would repeat it at home. And years later, when Ian would be assessed, it was always mentioned how great his concentration was. And Ian will read a manual. Yeah, you know, we sort of ignore it and go with the buttons, right? But Ian has that concentration, and that was those early years that we sort of sometimes wondered when are we going to get to the speech part?
SPEAKER_02But now we realize that she was really there was a methodology that she that she was following. Okay.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_02So born in Thunder Bay, took uh um took speech and language stuff up there, I assume went to school. What when did you come to to Toronto?
SPEAKER_00We came to Toronto when Ian was five. Um, and we love Toronto. Toronto gives you so many choices, it gives you so much support, so much opportunity. Yes.
SPEAKER_02Is that why you moved, or did you move because of work or other reasons?
SPEAKER_03Or because of because of my work.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_03I was with the provincial government and I got uh promotions down in Toronto. Okay, and our family was down here. We wanted to come back to our family in southern Ontario, uh, and then Ian went to um the crippled children's human big millen center first.
SPEAKER_00Okay, yeah, and then he went to the Bedford Park Language Program and then Ledbury Park Language program, and then went in North York to Lewis S. Beatty, it was, and then Drury Secondary School.
SPEAKER_02Um, so throughout there, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Special programs, except once they tried to integrate the children into normal classrooms. Yep, it didn't work. And actually, I was one of the advocates to to not because Ian brought home a sheet with photosynthesis in it. I remember that word. You know, and I'm thinking, whoa boy, you know, um, and the the uh uh papers coming home just were not they weren't um helpful.
SPEAKER_02So they weren't really accommodating Ian's learning and uh and his needs into the into the classroom.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, he excels at activities of daily living, and that's what they started in their programs.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Now you you talked about um Ian, and you you you mentioned that he went to a number of different schools and that he had to uh at some point take a bus to school uh on his own. What did you go through to get him ready uh to get him ready for that?
SPEAKER_00Yes. So there's always a great fear when it's new and your child is out in the community. So the preparation has to be great. And so in this instance, um, Ian and I rode the bus together to find the best route. Then we rode the bus on that route. It involved changing, so that was a little bit tricky, and then it evolved to Ian being at the front of the bus making the decisions, and I was at the back of the bus. And then when we were both comfortable, he would go on his own and I would follow the bus in the car. Um it was a lovely skill, it's a great skill for any child to have and has paid off. He and his roommate Philip go anywhere on the TTC in Toronto. It just was a great skill.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I I mentioned earlier that I had a foster son as well, and did the same kind of approach to TTC orienting or training or whatever it was. And he and I was living off Kipling and uh everything was great and it had been working for a few months. And then at some point he was very late coming back from where he was, and he discovered the rush hour express buses. So it went, despite all his pulling on the cord to stop the bus, the bus was still going and wasn't stopping until it hit Eglinton or whatever it was, and he had to walk back. And it was a nice lesson that he was resilient enough to know, oh, I just missed the stop, I've got to go back. Uh, and was just annoyed that it was February or whatever, and he had to go for a longer walk than he was prepared for. So um that's uh that's excellent that he was able to develop those skills and continues them to this day.
SPEAKER_00And your foster son would have learned to ask for help or that there are other ways to do things and um yes. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Excellent. So um Ian at some point, um, and one of the things we really wanted to dive into talking about today, decided that he wanted to live on his own. Um, so take us back to I think that was 1999. Uh, and what was going through your mind when this idea came up?
SPEAKER_00Well, um, Ian was 26, so it really wasn't on our mind, but his brother had moved out a little while before. And I think I think Ian just wanted to make his own decisions. And so we must have reached out to community living because we met Francis McNeil. Oh, yeah, and for a year Francis worked with a group of families trying to find a living arrangement for us, whether it was buying a house together and staffing it or uh whatever. I think we looked, it was a year we met with these people, but it turned out that the disabilities disabilities were too great.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_00Ian's very good at at independent living, and other children weren't. And so then Francis must have thought of the SIL program. And um Chris Pope came one evening with Philip.
SPEAKER_02So so SIL, just so we the for the lingo, right?
SPEAKER_00Supported independent living.
SPEAKER_02Got it.
SPEAKER_00So that was an option. I guess that Francis knew about, but we didn't know about well, she probably mentioned it, but we were still working with other families.
SPEAKER_03I must tell you when when uh uh Philip came to the house for the first time, um they hit it off like like bank gangbusters because they both worked in a factory setting. They both worked with uh lift trucks and and do all the uh cardboard compaction on the side.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_03And Ian took Philip up to his bedroom to show him the things, whatever, and they you could tell they just they just started the bond right there.
SPEAKER_02An instant connection, instant bond.
SPEAKER_03It was, and they're they have a 20-year age difference.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so Ian would have been 20. You said it was 26. So um Philip was in his 40s.
SPEAKER_03He had been in the SIL program himself for quite a number of years, but he was a he was a young, he's always been a young uh age, if you know what I mean.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, youthful spirit.
SPEAKER_03That worked really well, and uh they went into their apartment together and they've been together now over 25 years.
SPEAKER_00They had a bit of a wait, they had a bit of a wait, but in that time they were socializing, we're getting to know each other, and then finally in October they could move in together.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so that's a big move, right? So uh 25, 26 years living with you. Um uh and this idea comes up that wanting more independence, following in his brother's footsteps, uh, and suddenly the opportunity to move into uh it was an apartment, I guess, that he was an apartment with a roommate who you'd just met, but we're getting to know. Um how was that? Some fear, some nervousness, or what?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it was, but uh because Philip had been in the program and Philip's mom and dad, who have now passed, they were they were fantastic, and they they were they were really good. And we took a lead from from them, I think, to a large degree.
SPEAKER_00And and um again, I think it was the preparation. Uh we painted their apartment, we painted Ian's room the color he wanted, we paid painted Philip's room the color he wanted, so we tried to make it exciting for everybody. Um, they weren't all that far away from us at the beginning. Okay, so that was helpful.
SPEAKER_03Um I remember some of the first nights, it was up their apartment was up near Bayview and and Finch, and and the noise of the traffic, and that was different from what Ian experienced in our uh neighborhood, and and he was nervous and and we went over a few times and and uh but it was he very quickly adapted to to it. Uh it was independence that was the big thing.
SPEAKER_02Okay. So what was there one moment or a series of things that really gave you the confidence to know that he was ready? I mean, you mentioned that he brought it up, so he'd obviously done some thinking about this uh on his own, and you'd worked with Francis for a while, so you were getting a sense of involved. But was there a moment or a series of things that sort of said to you, yeah, this can this can work? Or how much how much um how much were you going on sort of faith and confidence that this would work out versus just knowing that this was gonna work? Any, I guess what I'm getting at. Do you have advice for people that are considering um when's the right time?
SPEAKER_00When's the right time? Well, I guess the right time. I think we have found Ian's always been ready before us. So when your child is ready, it's probably the right time. And then again, you prepare. But Ian was very good. He could make meals, he could shop, he was good with money. So he was an independent young man.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00There's always a but though, right? You know the butts. You know, like we think he's perfect, but there's the phone call, or when it's not. So, but basically 95% of the time, Ian's very independent, and um, so we knew that, right? We knew that.
SPEAKER_03Uh but there were times like the the computer. We didn't think he was ready for a computer. But but Aaron, this is a couple years later, a few years later, but Aaron said, oh no, he's he's capable of that. No, no, give him a try. Okay, we'll try it. We'll try it. Uh there may be some other examples of that where he really was ready, and we we weren't quite sure.
SPEAKER_00But um that's the other thing. We had Aaron Vandeen as Ian and Phillips.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you mentioned Aaron. So who tell us about Aaron?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, Aaron Vanderbeen was their support worker for 16 years. Um, he's still in our lives, he's still a valued friend and advisor in our lives. Um, and he was just Aaron was just so what laid back? Yeah, yes, the guys can do it. Yes, so actually, it was probably our support for all those years too, right? So that's the thing, I guess. When you get support for your child, you're obviously lucky enough to get support for you.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and we'd say that about all the re workers within community living that that these guys have had right up to today with uh the dean. And they're just they're amazing. Um, yes. They they help with conflicts that might be uh within the apartment uh building or you know with the landlord or something. The government letters government letters that have forms that have to be filled out. Yeah, uh they still need need the weekly, it's just a weekly visit and and make sure things are happening correctly. Are they are they are they buying too much junk food? Are they are they spending money in the right way? And that's that's what they've been they've been so helpful in in smoothing the water. Then we've been able to uh step back a bit from from that direct at all.
SPEAKER_02Now you you mentioned that Ian was ready or has I think you said has always been ready for things before you were. What talk about that a bit more?
SPEAKER_00Well, it was the uh the name the newspaper, he was ready for that. He was he was equipped, he did it well.
SPEAKER_02Um having a having a newspaper route.
SPEAKER_00Toronto Star newspaper route, yes.
SPEAKER_02Right. Um so what what happened there? What was that?
SPEAKER_03How did so it was well the there was a young yeah, there was a young woman. Oh, she was 16 or so, she had been the paper paper girl in the neighborhood. And actually, the suggestion came from her and her father to say, Hey, we know Ian in the neighborhood. He why doesn't he take over the route? See, we we never thought about it. And so that was the that was the neighbor who said, give me give me a chance. And so they the daughter and Ian worked together and showed him the little the route in the neighborhood. Right. Ian got red onto it, and uh I I went with him a few times, and and then on the Friday nights, I think it was when it was collection time, uh, I would stay out on the sidewalk and he'd go up with the little ticket and knock on the door and say, you know, you owe me 80 80 cents or whatever. But and he had he had a a little pouch there, he saved money, and he was very diligent about delivering the papers on time and very diligent about collecting. And I and I remember one time we were Linda Diane were in a a grocery store, and there was a neighbor, let's say at number 23, and he'd he'd say, There's number 23, she hasn't paid, she's she hasn't paid for two weeks or something like that.
SPEAKER_02She owes the 80 cents, and he was diligent.
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah, it was important. And so then unfortunately, the Toronto Star decided at some point that it should be uh adult carriers, and so all these kids, and it was great. I was a paper boy, and yeah, so was I so was I and and it was good, it was it was it was a good responsibility, and so uh Ian uh likes to tell people that he then retired for the first time.
SPEAKER_02He retired from the Toronto Star and they retired at 14 or 15 or whatever, however old he was, yeah.
SPEAKER_03And he got a payout of $50. He was quite pleased about that. So anyway, that but that's a good example of where uh we would never have thought of of approaching them and say, hey, can can Ian take on a paper? It was the the neighbors who saw it.
SPEAKER_02His neighbor, his community sort of saw that potential exactly uh and and brought you along with that, I guess, as it were.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yes.
SPEAKER_02So the the element of um, and I think you've talked about this, is that um fear can be play a factor in and worry about what could happen. What what what are your thoughts on on fear and dealing with that or the the worry that can come around what can happen? Because every parent can relate, uh, can relate to that, no matter what your kids are are doing or involved with.
SPEAKER_00You have no idea of the lists and the maps I have made over the years, right? So yes.
SPEAKER_03So but uh serious Renel, uh we've been very lucky again going back to the workers and uh helping us through the system. And we've had we've had our share of of having to uh work through the systems and try to get support and try to get issues resolved. Right. Um the one one fear that became realized is that when Ian was working with Loblaws, uh he he was super tired. He it was it was taking a toll on him.
SPEAKER_01He had a COVID shot.
SPEAKER_03He'd had a COVID shot. That was the next one, okay. And uh he he fell at work and he broke his neck. Oh wow. Uh that that really set him back, and and um he never did go back to work as a result of that, but he's fine today. Um and he's it hasn't affected his happy outlook on life.
SPEAKER_00Now, community living that was Al Merricks and Sarita Jackwin. They gave so much of their time and thoughts for both him and us to get through that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that was scary. They were there the whole time. Yep.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. That is that is scary. I'm glad to hear that he's recovered. I didn't know that. I didn't know that story.
SPEAKER_00You didn't know that story, yes.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. So you've talked about the importance of um the staff that are connected with community living, but you know, there's a lot of people in the province that do direct support work and work with people with with disabilities. For those staff that are, and you you've had very positive experiences with people that you're talking about. What are some things or advice that you'd have or things that you noticed about staff over the years that really stood out? So if I'm a support worker thinking, you know, listening to you speak, what are the things that really um really separated the staff that were excellent uh in in your mind?
SPEAKER_03Um well I'm just getting a phone call through my ear. Um I I think uh we've had we've had good relationships with the workers, and I think uh we've we've tried to make the point that we do we have we want to ask questions, we want to make sure that what what's being proposed or suggested for for Ian is is is good with you know, but at the same time we gotta be we gotta keep back and we can't uh force ourselves and say, well, this is the way we we want it to happen. And I don't think we've ever done that, right? And and and so we've had a good uh working relationship.
SPEAKER_02So it's been a balance between uh your concern around Ian's uh safety and care and his life and just for him and the staff's uh perspective, professional perspective on what he's capable of and that sort of back and forth inner in an exchange. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So we have to mention Aaron. Um Aaron just knew them so well. So I guess that's one thing. If you know them and know their strengths, Aaron still, they still visit Aaron one weekend a year. Ian and Philip. Oh wow, and and Aaron will still send us ideas like you know, should Ian and Philip consider this? You know, so that's Aaron always sort of made that extra step. Um, I have to mention one COVID Christmas. I think somebody in our family got COVID at the last minute, so Ian was going to be alone. Community living, I think it was the supervisor, Catherine, sent him a Chinese dinner for Christmas. It had it delivered, it was so cute. We were all together on Zoom, we were each eating our dinner together, but Ian was in his apartment in Toronto having Chinese.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, okay, nice.
SPEAKER_03So that you know, just that to think of that, we were so the small touches, the the yes, yes, and another thing I was thinking of is uh Ian Ian in the early days going to doctor's appointments, dentist appointments, eye appointments, and so on. Uh we would have gone with him. And gradually as he got older, and uh he uh the the workers would tend to do that, uh to go with him, and sometimes the significant discussions with the doctor and so on. And we we've been back, uh we we were still very involved and informed, but uh and and now Ian will go on his own to some of them.
SPEAKER_00But um Nadine is really great at sending us information, like when she goes with Ian, she's so thorough, and we we just feel we know everything that's going on.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. That's good. That's good.
SPEAKER_00So yes, they're all great.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's good to hear. That's good to hear. Um the just as we get to the end of our time, a couple more questions. So across this journey, I know it's been sort of 25 since 1999 since you since um he's been living on his own or with a roommate, and then you know, uh 26 years before that, what's one of the biggest surprises? If if it might be an unfair question, but throughout the whole journey, what's um what's uh what's been the biggest surprise to you over all these years, looking back as young parents uh in Thunder Bay to now?
SPEAKER_00So I think as a young parent, you really worry about how able your child will become. And so Ian is always surprising us. Like he used to like working with with Ken, they would did woodworking projects, and one time they were building a cupboard, and Ian more or less said, Do you think that will fit through the door? Of the grenadge, you know, and just like that, you go, Oh, you know, so those are lovely little surprises.
SPEAKER_03Um what well I was gonna say one I don't know if it's a surprise, but it's uh when you look back, uh, we have never shied away from sort of bragging or telling Ian stories to our friends. Yeah, and because he does have a different outlook on life sometimes. Um he'll say things uh that you know when he he says to Linda Rye on the phone, have I got some crazy news? Well, you know, when he says crazy news, you don't know whether it means it's a letter from the government that he doesn't understand or he's fallen or something.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_03So anyway, he hasn't he had he gets himself into situations that we we um enjoy telling them to our friends, and our friends have children with grandchildren and so on, and and we have this unique individual, right? And they share they share, and and that's been a good good thing. Yeah, that was very nice. Excellent.
SPEAKER_00So there's one other thing I wanted to bring up since I have a chance to talk to other parents.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, of course.
SPEAKER_00Ian has an older brother, and at one point when Ian, I think Vance was about 13, so Ian would be about 10. Vance acted out. Um, he pulled an alarm at school, and so we knew something wasn't right, and so we went for counseling, and it was very good for us. It was just we were giving Vance too much responsibility, that's all there is to it. And so then we took on more, but it was again that's another person guiding us, right? And so I would say don't be afraid to ask for others' opinions or um, you know, you don't have to do it alone. There's lots of okay. And so as we get older, community living gives us comfort, yeah, in that we know Ian will have a home and support when we're not here, and his brother will have support when we're not here.
SPEAKER_02That is that is such a uh I think it's an important note to sort of end on is that you're in a fortunate situation in that regard and that you know what the future looks like. You've got 25 years of experience with this, and um, you know what the future brings. So many parents across the province are waiting for some type of sort of they don't know what the future, uh what the future holds. Yes. That's uh that's good that you mentioned that.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_02Um final question. Um with the story of Ian and Philip and their sort of being roommates for 25, 26 years, or 27 years, whatever it is, yeah, more than 25 years. Um, what do you hope that people take away from uh from their story?
SPEAKER_00Oh I know they complement each other so well and they have patience with each other so well. Um, Phillips the social butterfly. Um he's he talks on the phone because his speech is clear. Um Ian's the organizer, um, he reads the manuals, he's the techie guy. They just compliment each other and they just have the patience to work together and make it work. Yeah, good. They just it's a lovely story. We were yeah, yeah, just yeah.
SPEAKER_03So it's the right fit.
SPEAKER_02So the fit the fit is important, that idea of living with a roommate. And because so many times people that these days want to live alone. Uh, and the independence is more than that sort of um codependency or living together and being being with someone, even though you're not uh you know, you're sharing space, but you're also sharing part of your life. So that's uh that's good to hear that that's worked out with them. Um final question, I promise this will be my final question because I've sort of alluded to this a couple of times. So in terms of belonging, and you know, you've now been in the city of Toronto for many years, and you've uh seen Ian but Ian and Philip, you've been um uh involved in your community in that. What does belonging uh mean to the both of you?
SPEAKER_00So, yes, um, so belonging. We think you want to belong to family and friends, right? So I would encourage parents to involve family and friends. So that's a belonging there. There's a belonging in a group, and so for Ian and Philip, that belonging has a lot to do with community living and the groups you support, like the hub and um what that's their groups and their buildings, you know, so they're groups, and then of course, there's belonging in society, and so both Ian and Philip have good social skills, and that really helps. So when you're out at a doctor's office, where and you're out at a restaurant, you've you know you belong. Um, we've gone to a restaurant where the waitresses come up and said, Hi, Ian, you know, like that's it, that's talks about Ian on so many levels. But yeah, you know, so the social skills are important to to be able to go into an office and talk to the secretary and yeah, doctor to be polite and yeah, and yeah, they're both if um in fact Philip really helped Ian in that way. Philip has was always had better social skills, and Ian has picked them up.
SPEAKER_02He's picked them up, sort of come out of himself and grown it. That's excellent.
SPEAKER_00And you know, yes.
SPEAKER_02That's excellent. Well, thank you for taking the time today. You are both an inspiration. Um, as as much as your son has grown and lived his life, you know, uh, that was in large part uh enabled or made possible because of the love and compassion and um sort of planning, as you said, for the future that you both had. So uh really a privilege to talk to you both. And thanks, uh, thanks for sharing your story today.
SPEAKER_00Well, sort of a partnership, isn't it?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, we're quite we're very honored to be invited to speak to you. So that's been great. Great opportunity. Thank you very much. Thanks.
SPEAKER_02Okay, thank you for listening, watching, and sharing. We release a new episode of Community Chats on the 15th and the 30th of each month. So don't forget to subscribe to stay up to date.
